Christopher Eliot (eliot@cs.umass.edu)
Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:58:23 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:58:23 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Eliot <eliot@cs.umass.edu> Subject: RE: [ifets] Technolgy and Lifelong Learning
Dear Samantha,
As I am a technologist it may surprise you that I agree completely
with your opening statement. I don't think that an "expert teacher"
can automatically teach in any medium. Some people express themselves
best in lectures, some using film, some using written words, some with
pictures and some using computers. There is no certainty that that a
great teacher can produce a great 'course' or great computerized
tutors. This assumption is the same as assuming that a great sculpter
should be able to compose great music. It is possible to do both but
there is no reason to assume that one skill can transfer into the
other.
However, I think you are too absolute in your defence of human
teachers. You say: "Even a supply (replacement) teacher' gives better
help to a student in a class they have never met before than the best
Intelligent on-line Tutors for all their powerful models." I would not
compare intelligent tutoring systems to the best human teachers or
even to average ones, but there are quite a few terrible human
teachers who are probably worse than nothing and definately worse than
a good computer tutor. Many (former) students cite experiences with
some *human* teacher as the reason they hate some subject and stopped
working in that field. Humans are capable of being great teachers but
they are also capable of being lousy teachers.
I do agree that a learning environment becomes richer when a student can
compare his reactions to those of other people. Books are the best
example of a traditional solitary learning experience, but it is possible
to learn more from a book by discussing it with others, for example,
in a literature class.
On-line computerized tutors can be designed along similar lines. The
systems can be designed to function in support of private and solitary
students, with the option of being integrated into a classroom
experience. I agree that the "interpretive role" that other people
play in a group learning experience is valuable, when it is possible.
-Chris Eliot
On Thu, 26 Nov 1998 S.J.E.Hobbs@open.ac.uk wrote:
> Dear Arun,
>
> OK I am responding!!!
>
> I think that Dr Edwards was taking a still commonly held misconception
> that if 'courses' are written by an expert teacher, accessing them later
> in a 'personal and private' way means that no other teachers are
> necessary hence one excellent teacher teaching an unlimited number of
> students rather than students being dependant on the vaguaries of
> individual, accessible teacher's standards.
>
> My disagreement with this aspect of her statement, and the reason that I
> put inverted commas around 'courses' is that I believe that a course (or
> probably I mean 'learning experience') in any medium should differ from
> a 'book' with respect to human contact.
>
> If information is made available in ANY form (and I agree entirely that
> new technologies offer us many very useful and appropriate ways of doing
> this) it is like a book in that it IS that 'personal and private'
> experience. What makes an excellent learning experience in any medium or
> mix of media is the integration of information with interaction with
> peers, practitioners, teachers, tutors. My experience with the MAYDAY
> project (ref. below) and more recently with the extremely successful
> tutoring system (both on-line through conferencing/email and
> face-to-face) at the the OU UK have reinforced this view.
>
> Even those absolute believers in technological supremacy are seeing the
> need to integrate 'coaches', 'friends', 'learning assistants' into
> materials to simulate this contact and dialogue. Lots of fun and lots of
> research money to be had here in Intelligent Educational Systems design.
> The only problem from my point of view is that this is something that
> PEOPLE do better and do naturally. Even a supply (replacement) teacher'
> gives better help to a student in a class they have never met before
> than the best Intelligent on-line Tutors for all their powerful models.
> (See the refs at end of email for examples from MAYDAY project, not
> current but the issues in them have still not been addressed. (Cropp was
> my maiden name!))
>
> Getting rid of the reliance on a 'teacher' as the sole source and owner
> of all knowledge and wisdom is, in my opinion, one of the major
> advantages of using WWW links and multiple sources in courses, but in
> doing so we should NOT 'throw out the baby with the bath water'. The
> 'baby' we need to hang on to is the interpretative role that other
> people and their differing attitudes and responses to information bring
> to a well rounded, thoughtful/thought provoking learning experience.
>
> Is totally 'private learning' like solitary sex? OK, but not really what
> it is about? (Please, no-one take offence!)
>
> I hope that was 'stirred up' enough for you Arun!!
>
> Samantha
>
> REFS from MAYDAY project
> Sussex, R., Cumming, G. and Cropp, S. (1994) 'Apprenticeship and
> interaction; language learning in the MAYDAY software environment.' In
> Ryan, M. (Ed.), APITITE 94 Conference proceedings. Proceedings of the
> Asia Pacific Information Technology in Training and Education Conference
> and Exhibition, Brisbane, June-July. (pp. 793-799)
>
> McDougall, A., Cumming, G., Sussex, R,. & Cropp, S. (1995). Learner
> modelling by expert teachers: Learner Information Space and the
> Minimal Learner Model. In J. D. Tinsley, & T.J. van Weert (Eds.), World
> Conference on Computers in Education VI. WCCE95: Liberating the
> learner. Proceedings of WCCE95 (6th IFIP World Conference on Computers
> and Education), Birmingham, UK, July. (pp. 733-
> 742)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arun-Kumar Tripathi
> [mailto:tripathi@amadeus.statistik.uni-dortmund.de]
> Sent: 26 November 1998 13:23
> To: International Forum of Educational Technology & Society
> Cc: Dr. Bob Leamnson; Kinshuk
> Subject: [ifets] Technolgy and Lifelong Learning
>
>
> Dear IFETS Forum Members, Dear Bob, Dear Dr.Kinshuk,
>
> I am watching very closely the ongoing discussions regarding,
> Technology
> and Tomorows. And, I would like to add some more important threads to
> the
> ongoing discussion to put some flame, to stir up.
>
> Today, when I was reading past issue of Communications of ACM (CACM)
> Magazines, there I found surprisingly the following statements re.
> Lifelong Learning (article) written by Dr. Carol Edwards in the May 1993
> Issue of CACM.
>
> Dr. Carol Edwards writes...
>
> Technology can make the lifelong learning a reality. With electronic
> tools, people can learn virtually any time and place they choose without
> obstacles such as poor transportation, fear of street crime, or lack of
> expert teachers (this I can not understand). Technology makes learning a
> private and personal experience, and seems to motivate learners - a
> particularly important factors for adults and children who experiences
> difficulty with traditional educational methods..
> (COPYRIGHT: CACM, May 93)
>
> More in next mails...
>
> Any thoughts??
>
> Kind Regards
> Arun
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ARUN KUMAR TRIPATHI,c/o Braun,Luetgenholthauser Strasse 99
> 44225,Dortmund,Germany EDUCATOR: WEB SITE REVIEW WRITER
> My short bio at http://www.bfranklin.com/gld98/tripathi.htm
> Volunteer cum List Manager on Global Learn Day II Project
> Join GLD-II Ship at http://www.bfranklin.com/gld98/contents.htm
> Member, World Association for Online Education: http://www.waoe.org
> Internet in Education: http://www.gsh.org/wce/archives/tripathi.htm
> E-mail: <tripathi@amadeus.statistik.uni-dortmund.de>
> Research Scholar, Internet Search Expert, Department of Statistics
> University Of Dortmund, EDRESOURCE Listserv Moderator
> MEMBER, IEEE Computer Society: http://www.computer.org
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
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Christopher R. Eliot, Senior Postdoctoral Research Associate
Center for Knowledge Communication, Department of Computer Science
University of Massachusetts, Amherst 01003. (413) 545-4248 FAX: 545-1249
ELIOT@cs.umass.edu, <http://www.cs.umass.edu/~eliot/>
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